| smbhax [sys=C64; cat=Sports; reg=UC] |
| | | Among the various generic 5.25" floppies with hand-written labels my dad somehow acquired for the family C64 when I was a kid was a golf game whose lush forested courses drew onto the screen in a slow, staged fashion--base dark grass and forest horizon (I think; two earlier entries in the series had more industrially populated horizons, and I don't quite remember their look, which also included vast expanses of brown dirt--although possibly my selective memory has left those bits out) first,
Publisher Access Software went through various acquisitions and I think ended up as part of 2K; at any rate, the C64 Leader Board games are not public domain as far as the internet knows, so I guess not much chance of me legally getting any of them into VICE.
There are Genesis and SMS versions I could dump, but the Genesis version draws way too quickly and besides which doesn't quite have the look I like from C64 WCLB, with its dithered and in-my-head pleasantly flecked autumnal foliage; and the SMS version looks very different. (Other computer versions are pretty different-looking too, or enough anyway that they aren't triggering my endorphins or whatever.)
Example of the draw-in, timelinked at 5:00:
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| | | Hah I didn't finish the first paragraph; to continue:
...then the lighter green of the courses, followed by water, next bunkers (I may have those reversed), and finally the golden trees, a forest whisking to verdant life across the screen.
^ _^ |
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| | | There IS dev Access Software's later Links: The Challenge of Golf (DOS)
which is on GOG.
Well oh okay, that was 1990, and see I'd read MS got hold of the Links series, but while they rebranded some of them as their "Microsoft Golf" series, those were separately published; MS didn't buy Access themselves until 1999, at which point MS was the Links publisher--but the earlier ones up through Links LS 1999 are not theirs ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_(series) ).
Anyway what I was going to say was amusingly enough that first Links game also draws in slowly and in section, this time with the landscape sort of slowly in reverse; it isn't quite as stylish as Leader Board effect, but maybe a bit weirder.
Hm and it's just that first Links that's on GOG. ... Sheesh I can't find a video on YouTube of the last one, Links SL 1999--just 1998, and 2000 (which is MS). Although contemporary reviews said 1999 changed "just enough" from '98 to stay on top, and complained that 2000 change much at all. Anyway I don't think any of those are available. ... Oh wait yes they are, wow GOG's search is bad, I only found them through accidental Google hits: Links 386 Pro, 3rd of 6 from Access, and LS 1998 (first Windows one). That's definitely it though: https://www.gog.com/en/games?developers=access-software
98 draws in a single pass, alas, and looks just kinda like a fuzzy version of a modern-ish golf game--and mouse driven, although I think maybe even the DOS Links games were. The FMV-ish character sprites and their desperate voice clip cries to the ball are a hoot though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1SHedchYXo .
Also it looks like some kinda community is sorta running a Links 2003 business, saying they're the "official" home of Links on a very spotty site layout hawking a "download version" for money, but also apparently still keeping an active ladder going. ... Hm sounds like it's got a course creator that's keeping an active community supplied with more recreations of real courses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MffkwXxSnsQ . 2003 pauses and draws the minimaps in in stages, if not the landscape. ; )
This video on 386 Pro points out the drawing-in similarity to Leader Board, and that it's pretty much the same engine as the first Links game, but higher res--I think I like the draw-in more than that first one, too: https://youtu.be/Baxz_lisAGI?t=304 . Definitely very mouse-driven, like apparently you have to hold a mouse button during the swing thingy. And a pop-up menu for club selection, etc. But it has higher GOG ratings than '98, sounds like '98 is pretty unstable--'course they have ol' reliable DOSBOX for 386. The mouse control looks like a bit of a pain though: you have to click a marker down at your aim spot, then click thrice maybe on a swing meter thingy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb7iLT4Z-Fg
According to Wikipedia, the publisher of the games on GOG, Big Finish Games, is mostly composed of ex-Access people.
Heck maybe I'll try 386. |
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| | | | Had to set 98 to Win 95 compatibility mode to get it to run. There's a separate DX config utility in the install dir that lets you set fullscreen, vsync, etc. |
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| | | DOSBOX .conf file for 386: set "output" to "openglnb"--way faster, sharper, and brighter than the default "overlay," sheesh!
https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/dosbox.conf
98 sys you can convert 386 courses, but pointing it to the course files in the 386 dir one by one just caused it to ask for the 98 CD-ROM to be inserted.
This thread
https://www.gog.com/forum/links_series/links_ls98/post28
says to use regedit to set
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Access\Links LS 1998\PATHS\DefaultCD
to "almost any number other than what is shown." The default was 46. I tried 1, 47, 10...didn't find anything worked. Eventually unchecked compatibility mode that I had enabled (as Win95) in the 98 shortcut's Compatibility tab, and bingo, it worked. 'p' (Something I'd set somewhere now let it run without Win95 compat? Maybe that opengl setting?) (Also you can paste the files in from the 386 folder and it will detect them automatically so you can't have to pick each one one by one.)
Hm then a "Compatibility Assistant" window said it had applied compatibility settings. I clicked its "Run using compatibility settings" button instead of its "Cancel" button...
And then '98 wouldn't run again. (It does work in Win 98/Me compat mode too, but that and 95 are the only ones--not XP, Vista, 7, 8, service packs, etc. I couldn't actually tell what Compatibility Assistant had set, I didn't see anything enabled in the compatibility tab, hm I wonder if it had applied it directly to the .exe or whatever instead of the shortcut, I didn't check there.)
Okay then I set that registry path back to 10, and then it worked without the compatibility mode, and the import worked. ; D
So, to import (I'm actually running Windows 11 btw):
- don't set compatibility mode (this isn't on by default so if you didn't turn on compatibility mode on the 98 shortcut manually, you can ignore this)
- set HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Access\Links LS 1998\PATHS\DefaultCD to 10. (Or some other number that isn't the default 46 value?)
- copy the .CRH course files from the 386 game's root--and maybe other files that share their base name? I've read something about those being like camera flyover files or something for extra fancy stuff--into LS 1998's root, where they'll be auto-detected the next time you run the 386 course import function, which is accessible via a button in both LS 1998's main menu - Options and main menu - Play Golf windows (actually in the end I just copied over all the .REC, .SPL, .001, .002, and .003 (sound?) files just in case, even those that didn't have a matching .CRH; it was 39.1 MB of stuff)
LS 1998 crashed 4 or 5 times I think in the course of converting the courses, but it seemed to pick up right where it had left off the next time, and in the end I had a total of 19 courses showing in its course select list.
... Compatibility Assistant keeps popping up. I'm gonna keep that on Cancel! ; P |
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| | | Ah yeah according to this
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/3936907/stop-windows-11-from-automatically-applying-unsuit
in
Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\AppCompatFlags\Layers
it's got HIGHDPIAWARE settings (or w/ "~"?) for 98's dxcfg.exe and linksls98.exe.
You can run services.msc and set startup type = Disabled for Program Compatibility Assistant Service, and/or delete those keys from the registry. I disabled and shut down the service. |
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| | | 98 doesn't have converters (in its CRH folder) for Bay_Hill, Dorado_B, and Torrey_P CRH files from 386. For the others, there are now .CRX files of them alongside the .CRH files. The CRXs are larger. I'll delete the .CRHs...and yep the courses load fine, so they're running off the CRX files.
Ah the menu in 98 comes up when you move the pointer to the bottom of the screen. |
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| | | Before buying Leader Board developer Access Software outright in '99, Microsoft would simply license Access' latest Links game and put it out as "Microsoft Golf x.0":
Links: The Challenge of Golf --> Microsoft Golf, Microsoft Golf Multimedia Edition
Links 386 Pro --> Microsoft Golf 2.0
Links 386 Pro --? Microsoft Golf 3.0 (with just four months between Links LS 1997 and this, maybe the timing was too tight for MS--because this looks more like a slightly upgraded 386 Pro)
Links LS 1998 --> Microsoft Golf 1998 Edition
Links LS 1999 --x Microsoft Golf 1999 Edition
Microsoft Golf 1999 Edition approximates the graphic style of LS 1998/99 players and courses but slightly differently, with a very different shot interface, not to mention the menus; the dev is "Friendly Software Corporation," also listed as the dev of 1998 Edition. I wonder if MS brought in Friendly to handle the conversion of '98, then thought hey we can just make our own for next time--then that dried up for whatever reason and they were like heck this is too much of a pain, let's just buy Access. |
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| | | Apparently https://www.dosdays.co.uk/topics/Games/game_links386.php#AF , you can use the convert exe installed with Links: The Challenge of Golf (also on GOG) to convert the courses from that first Links game to Link 386 Pro courses, and play them in there.
But as I found after I bought it (let's hope this GOG refund for my mighty $5 goes through eh ^-^), the courses in the first Links are already IN the version of 386 you get from GOG (and can be converted in turn into LS 1998 courses ; )). So yeah no need to get that first game I guess. |
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| | | | Looks like those same-name files I copied over from 386 to 98 in case they were needed for converting didn't actually do anything, so I deleted 'em from the 98 folder. |
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| | | The apparent change in brightness when I changed DOSBOX parameter "output" from overlay to openglnb for 386 was probably just due to the game's selection of a different course photo for the title screen backdrop each time you run the game.
Overlay definitely has a little blurry filtering going on though while openglnb does not. |
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| | | | AH OBS does not seem to want to capture the openglnb ("nb" stands for "not bilinear" ; D according to a post a few down in that forum thread linked from the wiki) DOSBOX window. Looks like the "ddraw" setting for output DOES capture in OBS, and nice and sharp with no filtering. So we'll go with ddraw. |
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| | | | Also OBS doesn't want to capture 386 or '98 with Game Capture or Window Capture, so Display Capture it is. |
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| | | | You can set higher resolution--up to 1280x1024--in 98...can't seem to go down to 1280x960 from there though, but it's okay it doesn't seem to be stretching x1024 to the slightly wider 4:3 or anything. Also you can change the pop-up steampunk menu to a higher res to match. : D Maybe it should to that itself but it doesn't. ; ) |
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| | | | It works out to 1350x1080, 5:4. |
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| | | Tried to post about improved (for me) DOSBOX settings for Links 386 Pro on the GOG forum for the Links games, but the post wouldn't go through, just stayed in the pop-up post creation window, as described by another user here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gog/comments/1e1haxz/could_not_post_on_gog_game_forums/
I tried disably uBlock, then using Chrome--which I hardly ever use and is I think pretty much on stock setings--instead of my usual Firefox, but the post still wouldn't go through. So maybe the GOG forum is just having a "hiccup" at the moment? Uh. Guess I'll have to try again later... |
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| | | GOG has a "Dreamlist" voting entry for World Class Leaderboard: https://www.gog.com/dreamlist/game/world-class-leaderboard-1987 . Not platform specific; I shared my C64-specific memories in a "story" post there. ; )
Despite Google's inaccurate "AI Overview" search result, GOG doesn't appear to sell C64 games, so even though old developer/publisher Access Software is back selling three of Access's later "Links" golf games through GOG as Big Finish Games, not sure if selling their C64 library through GOG would be possible. Also, BFG is Access co-founder and game designer Chris Jones, whom MobyGames doesn't credit on the Leader Board series.
Further down this rabbit hole, Wikipedia and Google AI Overview results suggest that the Links thing has only been made possible because TruGolf, a golf simulator company also formed of Access Software people, acquired specifically the Links series rights from Microsoft after Microsoft had acquired Access.
MobyGames C64 World Class Leader Board credits are to mechanical engineer and Access co-founder Bruce Carver, and programmer Roger Carver (Wikipedia says it was Roger Carver's golf swing that was rotoscoped into the golfer's animation for what became C64 Leader Board!). Bruce has passed away. Not sure about Roger--but Wikipedia says "As Access continued to develop the Links games for computers, they established a subsidiary, TruGolf, that created golf simulators, with Roger Carver overseeing this division."
Oh, they also say (this is all in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Software) "Leader Board, the first game considered part of the Links series"--so MAYBE the TruGolf rights acquisition of the Links "series" COULD include Leader Board?
In any case, I'm sending a plea through https://bigfinishgames.com/contact-us/ :
~ ~ ~
Hello, I've just purchased and have been enjoying your "Links 386 Pro" game from GOG. = ) I was inspired to hunt around for it by memories of playing the C64 version of "World Class Leader Board" as a kid. I wish there was a legit way I could buy that game to play now in an emulator on my PC--so I guess what I'm saying is, if you ever want to sell a downloadable version of the C64 game disks, you've got yourself sure-file sale right here! ^ _^
Thanks for the great games and memories. : )
ben
~ ~ ~
I mean probably can't spur a publishing effort that easily but hey, maybe they'll just say don't worry man you can just download it from abandonware sites and I'll take that as having their permission and that it isn't piracy. ^ _^ I mean that's just as much of a fantasy but ya never know 'til ya try, right? |
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| | | | The title screen of C64 Leader Board says "Bruce and Roger Carver" so I guess they WERE related. Oh yeah moby's bio on Bruce says brothers. |
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| | | Jones was Exec Prod on LS 97 and planner on MS-published Links 2003, 2003: Championship Edition (compilation of 03 and an add-on). But mostly he was on non-golf stuff.
Bruce Carver was on the LB games, first Links, 386 CD, 97, 98, 2000, 2001, Classic (compilation of 2000 and add-ons).
Roger Carver was on the LB games, Links, 386, CD, 97, 98, 2000, Classic. |
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| | | | The initial Links game teams were about a half-dozen people (there were even a couple other Carvers in there!). The LS teams were dozens of people. |
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| | | https://archive.org/details/World_Class_Leaderboard_1987_Access_Software
OH according to the manual, WCLB had a dongle that had to be plugged into the cassette port in order for the game to "load properly."
In WCLB and Links 386 Pro you set your golfer to one of three levels: Kids ("Beginner" in Links, although it still days it's "for children"), Amateur, or Professional.
In WCLB, "Kids" and Amateur ignore wind, and Kids doesn't even hook or slice (I think I read they don't even have to click for the "Snap" (accuracy) part of the usual swing thing, but not sure about that). Pros have the putting meter stop animating at 8', so for longer puts they just gotta time the press without seeing the meter.
In 386, Beginners ignore wind. Higher ranks hit progressively farther, but require progressively more "demanding" "swing timing" (I think that means the Swing Meter moves faster).
Less keen on the 386 scheme--who plays sports games to be weak? And nerfing noob hitting power isn't gonna help players of different ability play together. It also makes it more complicated to learn the club ranges! (Amateur is 10% less distance, Beginner is 20%.)
Took me a while to realize that in WCLB the "stick" in the green with a long "shadow" is actually the indicator of the green's slope. : P
2006 EU PS2 "Leaderboard Golf" appears to be unrelated. |
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| | | The "Security Key" dongle for the cassette port: https://archive.org/details/World_Class_Leaderboard_1987_Access_Software/page/n1/mode/2up
In a photo (not sure why there's a white one and a red one; the manual just shows a red one)--very few eBay auctions for WCLB include the dongle: https://www.ebay.com/itm/177733034396?stype=1&var&widget_ver=artemis&media=MORE
A thread says you can plug in a C64 datasette and hold the Play button and that acts like the dongle--BUT the thread is technically on the earlier, plain "Leader Board Golf" (aka GameFAQs "Leader Board: Pro Golf Simulator," although the OP confuses their own title by also mentioning WC in the post: https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66661
The reply mentioning the datasette workaround also mentions a cartridge version by Australian distributor HES, which got me excited because if there was a C64 cart version I could in theory dump it with a C64 cart adapter for the Sanni Cart Reader: https://savethehero.builders/products/commdore64-adapter
However, then I realized the thread is actually about LB, not WCLB; the only HES cart I can find is plain LB: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/leader-board-golf-cartridge-commodore-4654298659 |
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| | | | (The cart version--LB, presumably--did not use a dongle.) |
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| | | | Oh yeah about the datasette workaround, that Lemon post reply also says "This is actually mentioned IN the manual for the tape version of the game sold, as they never bothered to remove the copy protection." |
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| | | | Leader Board (first game) is massive water hazards--in fact it's at sea just about--and doesn't seem to have trees. 'p' |
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